Not to mention what the middle has to pay out. My parents bought a home there in the early 90s. If you make within +/- 50% of your city's household income for your age, you are middle class. I worked my way thru college I studied real hard and worked about 20 hours a week while in school and 60 hours a week during the summers. To me he stressed math & science. Ive thought about this a lot lately esp since right now Im in a situation where, although unlikely, I have an opportunity to strike it rich with the company where I currently work, as an early employee of a potentially lucrative venture. It makes me very uncomfortable that so many lazy people feel entitled to, and are dependent upon handouts. I agree with your 200K assessment to be upper middle class here in SF. :-), Although, if one wanted to limit it to the POV of just income, Id say it the 3 middle quintiles. I still remember the paintless, 15 year-old Nissan Datsan my father drove. During college I got used to living outside my income, but once I got out of grad school, I just looked back to my roots to get back within my income. and it also depends on your out come. My message is Do not resent a successful man simply because you envy him. Meaning they would want to invest money there until those Classes raise to a higher level. In such a case, the number of people who look up to you for financial support will determine whether 80K is a good salary or otherwise. Anything above $100,000 is deemed "upper middle class". Depending on whether youre a single or married filer, the actual amount you take home will be $5,200 after taxation. I think Im a regular joe smoe. Yes we have our problems but after going to alot of other countries Ill take the good old USA anytime. Id say everyone that is at the beginning of the second quintile up to $1 less than the upper quinitile. My private school cost roughly $4,000 a year in a town where the rich doctor or lawyer made $50,000 a year. The world has their priorities mixed up. Truth be told, if I look at the numbers Im considered rich or wealthy.. These are those who do not work and they dont have to. What if the person lives until 90? A person in the lower classes has a harder time digging themselves out as their time is spent on survival. Hmmm lots a wholes in that definition too, b/c you might only have 2 years left to live, and live really large b/c of your limited time! Someone making $80,000 a year pre-tax takes $6,666.67 per month home. Being middle class can have so many variables, its tough to nail down. But then I always kind of liked those a little more anyway. Conservatives (and many moderates) believe that we can just bake another pie. It just doesnt make sense to me at all. Sam started Financial Samurai in 2009 during the depths of the financial crisis as a way to make sense of chaos. Ross Perot stated during its formation that if it was passed Americans would hear a giant sucking sound of American companies fleeing the United States for Mexico, where employees would work for less pay and without benefits. Although, if I was able to make $1M a year doing something I love, I wouldnt reject it ;). K-8 school - Wikipedia Im from a family of 9 siblings and my father died when I was about 4 months old. Never really had a lot of wants, just needs. I was usually embarrassed by our house (the structure) as well as our vehicle. plenty of decent houses in lower meddle class areas. You go start a business, put everything you own into it, be held liable for EVERYTHING that business does, and be motivated/smart enough to turn it into a powerhouse. If you live in an expensive coastal city, $250,000 for a household isnt exactly rich since about $65,000 of your income goes towards taxes. My income has increased dramatically over the past few years..from low $100s, to $200s, over $400k this year. If you make above a certain middle-class income, then the government will raise your taxes. I am of the opinion that the Occupiers need a firm boot placed far enough so that the water from my knee will quench [their] thirst. If they were to put a portion of there energy into something productive, imagine what they could achieve! Is it a choice in America to make less than 33k a yr (50% cutoff)? Whether you already have a job that pays that much or youre currently looking for one, youll find this guide helpful. Thankfully, these power-hungry politicians on 1/2/2013 came to a Fiscal Cliff compromise and raised the definition of rich to now $400,000 for singles and $450,000 for couples. Im not sure what class I fall in nor do I stay awake at night thinking about it. Where I am, which is the suburbs of small town America, 100K is more then enough to live on. For most people, investing in a diversified fund is the easiest way to gain exposure. The answer to this question is never going to be in black and white. CA is a strange place. We have a nice house, take nice vacations, etc. I know that Sam has expressed some distaste towards the YOLO mentality that has been cropping up of late, but I think you make a fair point about the need to enjoy what you have as long as its not excessive. It's funny how there's no usage of the categories "lower class" and "upper class" isn't it? For context, in 1971, 61 percent of Americans fell under the middle class. So I started buying expensive toys eat out 15+ times a week but it doesnt hurt me. As teachers we make 50-85K a year (max out after 10 usually), and that is without your masters degree or anything. I also live in what I would consider a lower income apartment complex, but the people here are fantastic neighbors. Make around 30k per year. But if we moved to sayHawaiithat would change dramatically. But they dont seem to match the description. Im sure youre not poor, but to enjoy being poor is wonderful as it means theres nothing but upside! Whomever ends up in office, I hope our recovery continues. It certainly helps to have a steady income to build wealth. Thus my mother made payments for about 17 years while raising the nine children on ONLY Social Security benefits for the first 10 years. We live in a below market rate rental house. If the country is losing their middle class, who are they losing it to? I am currently working on my degree in Finance/ Financial Services And when I send out resumes every day and come up empty, Im not working hard enough. And when I have informational meetings with decision makers, and they like me but cant give me a job or promotion or raise because of the economic climate, Im making myself a victim. I am grateful for the education I did receive and all the help I received from state institutions, but I could not sacrifice my childrens future for my own. Where did you get this number? I have since moved on, I am now back in college finishing a bachelors. I spent my 20s just saving money (with a few indulgences here and there), and I could have continued that trend indefinitely (I like nice things, but am quite indifferent to the prospect of downgrading). How did you do it? :-), Many people blame Obama for their financial woes for class and and financial. . 80K: 26.57%. Interesting insight about class structure defined by VALUES instead of income. Now in days i considered that poverty (the right word, no middle class). No government assistance either. Loved this post Sam especially the political discussion within If you can get 50% of the 95% of the population who makes $200,000 or less in America to vote for you, its much better than getting 100% of the 5% of the population who makes more than $200,000 on your side!. In addition we have 10s of millions of illegal immigrants that have called the United States home over the last 30 to 40 years, the majority of which have low education, minimal skills sets and often limited language skills competing with Americans with higher educations (GED/high school or greater) for lower income job. Is 80k a year upper middle class? - Coalition Brewing living in LA (thats Los Angeles, not Louisiana). Then $10. Eh? Self-doubt began entering my mind as I questioned whether I really deserved to make what I was making. I never thought about income level that much because it is relative to geography. To the contrary, were friends with a surgeon who (it is estimated) makes over $500K. I even snuck the metal beast out in a torrential downpour and two hubcaps flew off while I was doing burnouts. What you do from here on out is up to you and destiny. Topic: Is $80k/year middle class? The language baffles me. Put money in places were it counts. Mean as a junkyard dog. And this is where we conclude that it depends. My wife and I will clear $125k combined this year. my advise is this find the cheapest but livable house out their and by it threw a mortgage payment. In these countries, we often stay in $20 a night rooms and often go to 5 star hotels like the Taj Mahal in Bombay and the Oriental in Bangkok for lunch or dinners that cost $50 to $100. I guess in SF and NYC! Not a day goes by where I don't give thanks for starting Financial Samurai in 2009. For more nuanced personal finance content, join 55,000+ others and sign up for thefree Financial Samurai newsletterandposts via e-mail. I can buy a normal car, normal house, and save enough to put my child through college and retire. Although, I think I will always consider myself middle class until I have more money than I know what to do with coming in. Hmm. Perhaps the goal is to not compare yourself to rich people. Here is the perfect example of the fluidity of the term middle class. I live in Manitoba, Canada. You therefore also agree with me that the maximum income for maximum happiness is roughly $200,000 per person! I live mostly off investment income and that was all self made. $80k Per Year After Taxes is $61,080. Im making more today then I ever have. I know this definition sucks, but its the reality in my mind. Unable to do that even with $200,000 a year, its depressing. View complete answer on moneybliss.org. If you and your spouse will collect $2,000 a month from Social Security, or $24,000 a year, you'd need about $16,000 a year from your savings. Why? I had long hair, a lot of unkempt facial hair and a hippy philosophy. My husband makes just under $40,000/yr and Im a stay at home mom. I was supposed to get more money back from Trumps admin. The book helps you make more optimal investment decisions so you can live a better, more fulfilling life. We work hard to provide for ourselves and our families. Pass it on! Even after we reach an arbitrary income level, we aren't satisfied for very long. In the US weve been proud that you can rise as far as your hard work and innate intelligence and talent will take you. I know that this is substantially more than my teacher friends in MN and ND make, but Im not sure about the other states. The CBO breaks it down into quintiles by income. When the cost of an entire house is only 80% more than your annual income, you know you've got it made! :-). I grew up with wonderful parents who taught me to work hard, because by doing so you can have whatever you want and anything is possible. Props my man. But if I had wanted kids, Im sure I could have found ways to raise a family and still get ahead. I wear a G-Shock watch, drive a 7 year old car, and shop for clothes at Kohls. To be clear, your demography has an impact on more than how much you spend on housing on a monthly basis. Im not trying to be rude but the facts are the facts. Have you ask yourself why there are less jobs now? If your annual pre-retirement expenses are $50,000, for example, you'd want retirement income of $40,000 if you followed the 80 percent rule of thumb. But soon it will seem more normal. As for me, having an average-sized house, a car, a stable job, a few financial investments and at least once-a year vacation to a country I have not been in is my definition of middle class. Bingo. with all respect, I dont think you can consider yourself in the middle class. Rent is $2100/month (should be $3500+) for a 1100sf 2Bed/2Ba. We were desperately poor. I see middle class as a general classification to identify a group of people who are not rich or poor. My mother grew up poor. Wow, a family of 9 is large! I'm always so disappointed when President Obama pits the rich against the poor since the chances are very high that we've all been in the same middle class once before. If I had the extra money like winning the mega bucks my dream would be to find people I could help up. The analysis put the 80K salary cap substantially higher than what the average Americans make. So sure I could get a chevy and save a few bucks and have even more money but whats the point? Although we could, no doubt afford kids having no children has made my life more like I had always envisioned. 30-50k a year in some cities like Palo Alto or San Francisco where properties values are 1 mil plus, probably wouldnt get you very far. Interesting feed. Saving money is part of our DNA. Free doctors visits and hospitals, but we did not use them, my wife was a doctor. Exactly so the middle class is like the 10%-98%, instead of whats normally the 60% or 75% of the population. And feeling rich is often a state of mind. The most straightforward way of defining someone as middle class is based on income thresholds. My friends say we are upper-lower class bordering on lower-middle class, but we dont live below the poverty line, so were lower class but not poor. To top it off, when my grandmothers rent was too much in the Colony, she and my Uncle moved in with us and they dont make any money. Lastly, I feel a slight bit of bitterness coming from you dealing with men, marriage, etc. Do you know how many companies fail in the first year? Along the way Ive made some very poor financial choices that Ive only just begun to correct in the last few years. Theres even some left to pay down debt. By definition, you are a homeowner, educated and a professional or manager. Is 80k a year middle class? I have a friend who makes a million dollars a year, but considers himself middle class. So, it depends if youre looking at it from a purley statistical standpoint or some other subjective means. The $75,000 spread accounts for the wide cost of living differential between places like New York City and Fargo, North Dakota. I do wish i could work and not depend on him so it wont be hard on him. Expensive as in higher property tax, sales tax, food prices, gas prices, and nearly everything thats part of our daily lives. Ah, the inability of the middle class to have everything they want unless they work for it! Parents that have children they cannot financially manage just creates more stress in their lives (parent and child), less time to give the proper attention to their children, etcand guess who suffers because of a decision that is basically made on instinct (the lower regions of our body) vs. our brain? It would just have taken a little more creativity. I am an affluenza now. Its just our societys decision that makes it taboo to EVER put a $$ amount on this right and therefore perpetuates alot of the worlds problems. I earned them because I worked hard for them. However, in New York City, a $50,000 household income is closer to poverty. But to direct your frustration using language laced with racial bias is intellectually lazy at best. First off, I dont think most people that even come into money or earn a lot as a first generation are really upper class. 50%! Self-entitlement and self-absorbed behavior say more about lack of self-confidence than a mythological social status. Therefore, a person making $50,000 $150,000 can comfortably consider himself or herself middle class. Hell, Im already sick to my stomach with the taxes we pay now! So, I just want to say good job! Wish the US paid most of their teachers that! Like everything else in life, people will always look at money differently. Education is key. Now, in the US I am what is considered middle class and in a higher tax bracket than I wanted (or imagined!) The simplest way to fix this economy is to raise minimum wage to at least $15hr, more would be better. ;-). Id end up like Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton or worse. . It doesnt matter to me. . How much should your monthly expenses be? I love being able to have ownership over my $ rather than my $ have ownership over me.